Bente Illevold Interview
This is the transcript to my interview with the internationally renowned Norwegian Euphonium soloist, Bente Illevold. This button link takes you to the podcast, the video, and complete show notes with all the links!
Bente Illevold:
When I was younger, I was always thinking that it was something wrong with me, why? I didn't really felt that I was fitting in. And after I am grown older and more experienced, I realized that it is because the environment is not always very inclusive and especially not if you are different, I try to create a road for pho that doesn't exist.
Leah Roseman:
Hi, you're listening to Conversations with Musicians with Leah Roseman, which I hope inspires you through the personal stories of a fascinating diversity of musical guests. I'm excited to feature Bente Illevold, the internationally renowned Norwegian euphonium player who has carved out a unique career path as a euphonium virtuoso. During this podcast, you’ll be hearing clips from some of her albums and live performances, and in the complete show notes on my website you’ll find the links to these specific albums and videos. I first heard about Bente from Katherine Needleman, when she asked Bente to premiere a newly commissioned concert piece for euphonium and piano by Kyrese Washington. Bente will be playing the American premiere of this new work at the International Women’s Brass Conference right after the release of this podcast, in May 2025, and the clip you’re going to hear is from the world premiere performance earlier this spring. Bente talked to me about her exciting new Rendalen Low Brass Seminar and ways to address the problems around inclusivity in the low brass world. She also spoke more broadly about music pedagogy and the importance of careful listening and self-reflection, and she stressed the need for authencity in engaging with our listeners.
Like all my episodes, you can watch this on my YouTube channel or listen to the podcast on many podcast platforms, and I’ve also linked the transcript to my website Leahroseman.com .It’s a joy to bring these inspiring episodes to you every week, and I do all the many jobs of research, production and publicity. Have a look at the description of this episode, where you’ll find timestamps and all the links, including different ways to support this podcast!
Leah Roseman:
Hello, thanks so much for joining me here today.
Bente Illevold:
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Leah Roseman:
Well, you're the first euphonium player I've had on the series and I know that many brass players will be listening, but I'm a violinist and I was talking to our Principal Trumpet player, Karen Donnelly, who is an early guest of this podcast, and she was saying how the sound of the euphonium is so different from the trombone because, and she used all these terms I didn't understand. So maybe could we start with the euphonium and why it's not used in orchestra very much and why it's such a great solo instrument?
Bente Illevold:
That's a big question and I don't have the answer to that question I think, but I can talk about it the way I see it. And I think it's just when the valve system was developed on brass instruments, it's like there were desperate need for a big brass instruments that could play. So the tuba automatically got a space in the orchestra and for euphonium, I don't know, I think it's just people that play that horn in that time probably didn't have, wasn't on the barricade working for instrument. I suppose that's the only main reason I think it's not in the orchestra. It should belong there in the browse section I think. And of course some composers know that and has written for it historically, but I don't really have an answer to why it's not an orchestra instrument. It should be. But I think maybe this is the problem we are facing in euphonium.
I guess we'll come to that later in the podcast, but it's like we haven't really established us as an important instrument on the classical scene of music or the music scene in classical music. And that's a problem we are struggling with today. I think both when it comes to people acknowledging performers as great artists. We have some really world-class players around the globe on euphonium that I think is not any less so soloist than big violinist or a big trumpet player. But still the euphonium struggle to sort of gain the respect. I think it's needed in the classical music. And yeah, I think it has some qualities that no other brass instruments has really. So to me it's like diamond that is not really discovered by everyone yet.
Leah Roseman:
And you're certainly doing a lot to further the renown of the instrument. Now, I found out about you through Katherine Needleman, so I hope many people know who she is who are listening. And I did feature her on the podcast a few months ago and I'll have that episode linked. So she commissioned a piece by Kyrese Washington that you recently premiered as we record this. It's really beautiful and thanks for sending me that preview of the premiere. Are you planning on recording it anytime soon?
Bente Illevold:
It depends on funding. It always comes down to that. I think in this business it's like time and money, that's our big concern. So I have applied for some funding and hope that we will and hope that we will get it so we can record it with the pianist Monica that I did the premiere with.
Leah Roseman:
It's really beautiful. So I'm hoping we can include a clip for people to listen to a little bit of it from that performance.
Bente Illevold:
Sure, sure. Absolutely. And it'll be a U.S. premier in May because I'm going to the IWBC, the International Women's Brass Conference in Hartford, and I have program that on my recital there as well.
Leah Roseman:
When is that conference?
Bente Illevold:
It's between, I think it's from the 21st to 25th of May.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about the International Women's Brass Conference that was on my list of things. How important is this for you as an organization?
Bente Illevold:
I think it's super important and yeah, this is a very big question and I don't know how you are going into it, but to be a female brass player or especially being a female low brass player, and it's a big question again, but for me it's like I first went to the IWBC in, I think it was 2017 when it was in New Jersey, and I never felt so welcome at any festival ever, and that's what I was hoping for and probably struggled with for a long time in my career when I was young. And a student as well is like to find a place you feel that you belong or that people genuinely care about you and it's not just a competitive environment all the time. And I found that there. And yeah, I think it's a very warm and inclusive atmosphere at the conferences and that I really, really enjoy being a part of and I think it's a big need for that kind of environment in our community.
Leah Roseman:
So will you be meeting Kyrese, the composer when you go to the States on this next trip?
Bente Illevold:
I hope so. They said that they will be at that recital or at least we'll try to come, so I really hope so. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So Kyrese is a flute player and composer and I was thinking, I mean there are some similarities between the flute even though it's so much higher, but the kind of fluidity you can achieve on the instruments.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, but it comes down to the ideal on how you want to sound as well on the euphonium, what kind of qualities you put on your top priority list in your playing. And I think what is super cool about euphonium, at least the way I see it still, is that we don't have globalized sound. We still have very different ways of playing this instrument depending on where you're from actually we have a very specific American tradition on the euphonium, a various British one and maybe sort of a Nordic one, and then I will call it a central or South Europe one that's the main in Western world, main. And those styles are very, very different and focuses on very different qualities. And for me it's like my top priority is always in the playing, it's the sound and if you don't have a great sound, you have nothing in my opinion.
And then it's like, what do you call them? You just refer to the flow or the flexibility, the ability to just play very fluently, but at the same time it's very a hard to do that on euphonium because if you listen really carefully, you can hear a lot of playing out there that is not really well centered. So it's just like I can say it's very easy to cheat on the euphonium as well. I will say very, to be honest, I think euphonium is a pretty easy instrument to get to a certain level on. It's like, yeah, when you start playing, probably honestly in my opinion, euphonium and saxophone is probably the easiest instrument to start on, but to come really good is of course hard. But I think you can fake it and I can still sound pretty good for those who are not trained to really listen on euphonium, in my opinion.
Leah Roseman:
In Kyrese's, the Sonatina de Larmes, you premiered it in a part of a program that you called, She Sounds Like a Girl.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah,
Leah Roseman:
Because this is what we hear
Bente Illevold:
And that's been a long process for me to really, as I said earlier to I struggle a lot with finding my spot or finding a community I felt I belong. And when I was younger I was always thinking that it was something wrong with me why I didn't really felt that I was fitting in. And after I am grown older and more experienced, I realized that it is because the environment is not always very inclusive and especially not if you are different. I try to create a road for euphonium that doesn't exist. And the strange thing is that though I have a lot of support also on my field by other euphonium players, I also meet a lot of resistance from other euphonium players that doesn't like the way I speak about the instrument or the way I play it or what I play.
I'm playing a lot of music that not so many other people play. I came to this conclusion when I was in my Masters, it's about 10 years ago now, and I realized that why try to, okay, if you're going to trying to make a career on the global scene, global brass, then why try to play the same pieces that everyone else play and it all comes down to taste or it'll be like it's an impossible discussion to talk about who's really the best. It'll always come down to taste is like who's the world's best violist or a trumpet player? It's impossible to decide. And it's the same with euphonium player, but then I decided I just want to leave footprints that nobody else has left before. And I think that's also for me, that is also it is having an artistic mindset that has to be creative.
And if you look down the music histories, people that have really made a change and isn't the people that just follow the crowd, it's like you have to, as an artist, I feel you have the responsibility to also provoke not only do what rest is doing and play the same pieces or work on your excerpts. I think it's like we really need, and especially on the brass scene in my opinion, because I find it a bit conservative to be honest. We really need people that are playing in a different way, doing different repertoire, being more crazy. I think we really need that and take risk. I think it's like to achieve something great, you have to go outside the comfort zone. Great things has never happened inside the comfort zone on any field in the world, I think.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I was thinking about your duo with the percussionist, what's his name?
Bente Illevold:
Anders Kregnes Hansen
Leah Roseman:
So you've done quite a few projects, you have an album. Do you want to speak to that collaboration?
Bente Illevold:
And we are having great plans for the future now, and we have a lot of new music waiting for us to premiere and record a new album. Hopefully it'll be done in 2026 about a lot of new pieces and record on album. Yeah, that is, I really find that some of the qualities when I spoke about sound earlier is like to play with percussion is really the euphonium can really shine there and you can really be challenged as an artist to try to blend with all the different percussion sounds and you have this enormous palettes of sound that you can create. And that is, I really, really enjoy that and it takes a lot for me and it's really hard. Anders he's a really, really good musician and I really need to be on top of my game to do that, and I really enjoy those challenges playing with him and trying to make some, there has been of course several percussion and there is percussion and euphonium duo still also in the U.S. quite good one, but it's like doing big serious repertoire on creating new stuff. Again, it comes down to that really, really leave your mark and that is what on I'm trying to do. And we are really, really lucky that we got actually what is called ensemble support from the Norwegian state this year. So then that's also a great achievement that I noticed our work and really appreciate diversity we bring into the Norwegian music scene.
Leah Roseman:
I was hoping we could include a clip from some of what you've recorded with him. You have the latest album with Music of Stig. I can't pronounce these names,
Bente Illevold:
Stig Nordhagen.
Leah Roseman:
There we go. Would that be okay to include something for people to hear?
Bente Illevold:
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, so I think you can include something from the euphonium concerto, the trio with the piano and Anders, or you can also include some with the string players. I think the second movement, especially from the main title piece about is really, really cool and also a lot about the coloring and you really don't know what instruments that are playing at some point on that. (Music)
And I also want to add in that for me it's recording is it's very cool to do an album and it's the modern portfolio or CV we can say now it's like your album, that's really your statement. But at the same time it's like we all know that albums are fake. A lot of the big companies are, the edits are so enormous. I asked when Anders and I recorded our first album. I asked the producer, how many cuts do you usually have? And then he said it was usually 1500 cuts on one hour music at least, and and all the mastering and sound edits and different things. But this latest album and also my solo album that is not completely on streaming platform, COVID album, Alene, is recorded on a different company. It's called Authentic Recordings, and that's a young producer in a very, very small label from in Oslo. And the philosophy is to have authentic recordings and the philosophy is like you record a whole piece three times and then if you don't have everything you do, small takes maybe 20 bars and that's it.
Because I think at some point you'll enjoy that because you get a feeling of the intensity that you really have if it was a concert and you still have the possibility to get everything pretty right, but it's not fixed because, and I think it's like we are so trained now, we are expecting perfection, but I'm not sure if that recording perfection is really off. It's fast, fascinating and sort of entertaining, but I'm not sure if it's the art and if everything is going to be that way. I think the live concert and the live experience of being together as humans will disappear gradually and we really, really need that in the world and how everything is developing now. I find that I ask myself constantly, how did we come to this point of everything in the global situation politically and everything where we are now?
And I find that the reason is because we don't meet each other, we don't talk to each other, we don't experience things together as a big community anymore. It's like all individual by your own watching your phone or watching something on your TV instead of actually being present with other people talking or experience things. And I don't know how it's other places in the world, but after Covid still concert scenes or orchestras struggle to get audience here in Norway. So it's still hard because people have just gone into their own, zoomed into their own lives and I think we need to leave the phone at home and go out and be together and be present. And I think to be an artist is completely necessary to be connected to the society you are a part of. I think as an artist you have obligated to have an opinion on what's going on around you because art has always been a reflection on the society in the present time. And if you don't leave that behind you, if you just try to look good on a video or sound good on something that is recorded a thousand times and that it's not the same.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I agree with you.
Bente Illevold:
We are losing humanity. Yeah, the, yeah, yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I do get the feeling where I am in Canada. I mean the audiences that have come back are maybe different than before, but there's a hunger to be together and experience things live so hopefully elsewhere, especially if people can get new and younger audiences in the halls that's way forward I think.
Bente Illevold:
I hope you're right.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I hear these trends. They were really starting before the pandemic with all the online behavior like movie theaters who goes to movies, very few people anymore, it used to be such a thing. So yeah, I think it is a challenge for all the performing arts and I guess visual art. I mean even going to galleries, people go when there are tourists, I think they visit a place or they go to a famous gallery, but in their own city, maybe not so many people go and experience art that way. What do you think?
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's, I often hear people say they struggle to relax or get some time to rest, but I think it's like to do that, you need to just don't stay at home and watch your phone. You need to be out there and have your brain focus on something else. I think that is important. I'm not saying I'm super good at it myself, but I see the need of being with people and having conversations with people instead of just living of social media. I have a huge presence on social media myself, but I get asked a lot about that because people seem to think that since I am present on social media, I also spend a lot of time on social media, but that is very, very different, two very different things.
So I use it for work, but I still try to make it real. I think it's also a part of the problem also for the younger generation students. They are getting unrealistic thoughts on how it is. It's like it's not glamorous. I'm not living a glamorous life to be, even if I'm a euphonium player, traveling a lot around doing a lot of stuff, my life is not glamorous. I don't think it'll ever be for a euphonium player, honestly, not in my lifetime at least. Maybe I can do something that will help that in a hundred years. Somebody can be a real true rockstar on euphonium, but it is like to create that illusion that your life is glam as a world star is like, I don't like that approach to social media. I think it should be real. And yeah, I think that will be, then it could also be beneficial for students and it could be more for education and then for them to really learn instead of just getting idols that I want to be. I see that tendency a lot when I travel around and teach. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I enjoyed watching a couple of your online masterclasses you did from your own studio where you presented fundamentals and as a violinist I found it interesting. So I wanted to ask you about some of that and I was thinking, oh yeah, you talked about how students need to have the patience for listening for themselves and focusing on excellence in the basics. So I also wanted to ask you about your training and your path early on too.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, I started very late, at least in the Norwegian perspective. I started playing piano when I was really young and then I started playing the trumpet in the school band. Wasn't really good, so I switched to euphonium and I was around 15 and I'm born and raised in a very, very small town, or not really a town, but more of a county in the middle of nowhere I will say. So it was very far from any city and any professional ensemble of any kind. So I grew up, the music I heard live was basically folk music and band, on not a very high level, very low level where I came from.
So I didn't really have anything to, and this was of course before YouTube and everything, so I didn't have the access to listen to excellence, so I had to work very hard. I don't know about Canada, but I know about U.S. education system is very, very different than in Norway. And in Norway it's very hard at least. And still for some instruments, very hard to get into school. You need to have really high level, everything is based as a conservatory, not as a college. So the music education here, so we are going into performance bachelor degree, it's very, very hard. And when I was accepted at the Norwegian Academy of Music in Oslo, it was like four years since they last accepted a euphonium player into the school in Bachelor's. And I had to audition three times to get in three years. So I was like 21 I think when I started my Bachelor.
And I had to work super hard because I didn't have the training in young age. And when I started it was like my teacher put me on the fundamental school and it was super, super hard because I had to do mostly basic and fundamentals. I practice probably three, four hours a day. That's sort of the limit you can do on the brass instrument I feel. And maybe someone can do more, but for me it's always been a limit around that time to don't get any fatigue that will stick. And mostly on fundamentals. I almost didn't play any repertoire for those first two years and I was super hard because all my friends that were students as well, they played a lot of solos and I didn't have anything already when we were going to have master classes and stuff. But looking back, it was really good. It was really what I needed. And I feel like now it feels like a global trend to be honest, that people are skipping that work and going to repertoire starting maybe on high school, just working on repertoire and staying there and haven't really learned the fundamentals. And then you spend so much time learning the repertoire because it's actually, you don't have the skills, you're just learning one piece at the time. It's a very different pedagogy than an approach, than I think you should learn to play the instrument. And then you have to always play repertoire on the level you are. The repertoire, in my opinion is the repertoire should always be easier than your fundamentals.
So you have this sort, yeah, you need to, I don't know the English word for this, you need to have energy and focus left to think about the musicality, sound, interation, all that. And yeah, sometimes you hear students just barely being able to come through their recital and then yeah, you haven't done your fundamentals and it takes time, but it's like we all know that it's like 10,000 hours of practice, that's not the minimum. Probably I have like 20,000 now or even more. And that's just what it takes. And it's like I don't have any talent or I don't have any talent on euphonium. I think I have, my family was, many people in my family on my father's side was musicians or everybody played an instrument and some of them pretty good for their time or for the place they were from. A lot of them went to Oslo and studied music, my siblings or my grandfather and also my grandfather.
And now I think I can see that I sort of have a talent for phrasing or understanding or putting passion into my playing. But I will say that it's only the last five years maybe I've been at a level where I really can use that ability. Before that I wasn't good enough on the instrument. So I don't think it's, musicality isn't just to put in the instrument like that. If you don't really, your instrument need to be so automatic for you. So we don't really have to think what you're doing technically or physically, it just have to be there as a reflection. I tell that a lot to my students. I feel playing the euphonium for me has been sort of a traveling, real learning your basic instincts in the body because you're doing so much that it's so not natural for the body and you need to relearn the body to not react in the natural way, but react in the way that is beneficial for the playing.
Leah Roseman:
Could you be more specific about that? I'm curious where you're going with that.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, it's very basic. For example, tensing up when you're out of breath because that's very, very common. And when you tense up immediately you'll ruin your sound to force yourself to stay calm. That's very working against your instincts. And also when you are super out of breath and you want to just take an inhale like that, you need to learn to take a deep breath automatically. That is your reaction. And when you're starting on a high note and it's very natural to tense up and aiming for the high note, you're still feeling grounded working with your diaphragm. A lot of physical stuff I would say to sort of relearn the body it to do different things than what is natural for us, at least that I would say it's like, yeah, it's been that way for me.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And about fundamentals, I mean myself, I've been a professional violinist for over 30 years and things I took for granted when I was younger that I wouldn't lose these things. You need to relearn things or things start to change in your technique. So I am always reevaluating and working on basics for sure.
Bente Illevold:
And I feel it's like sometimes when I'm in sort of a hurry or I have periods where I have so much repertoire that to get through everything in three hours a day, I don't have so much time. I will do five, 10 minutes warmup and then just go to the repertoire because it's needed. And I feel that those periods I don't really get any better or I'm not developing a healthy way of playing. And after a while I feel my fingers are sticking. So always when I have the time, I do still today for example, I do almost one hour of basics every morning. Start with that when I have the time and especially when I'm on tour, because it's like I say to people, it's like when you're touring, that's when you lose the shape. You need to work really hard to be in super good shape when you're starting a tour because when you end the tour, your shape will be very bad because when you only play in concerts and that only takes things away from you, it doesn't give you anything. When it comes to, we have this term in Norwegian, what we'll say is like it's fresh, fresh made. You need to keep it fresh all the time. If you leave it for a week, it'll drop very, very fast.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I can relate for sure.
Bente Illevold:
I really want to say a few words about the Notturno Lockdown Lullaby, if you have,
Leah Roseman:
Oh, it's so beautiful. Yes!
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, because you probably want to use something from that, I assume, or I hope?
Leah Roseman:
Yes!
Bente Illevold:
So I just want to say a few words about a piece that I'm very happy with or I'm very proud of being able to premiere. And it's a very beautiful piece written by a Norwegian composer named Marcus Paus. He's one of the finest contemporary composers we have in Norway. And he is actually not very typical contemporary, not very experimental, but he's yeah, really check out all his music. And this piece he wrote for me, the first he wrote for me called Notturno Lockdown Lullaby, and it was written during lockdown of course during Covid. That was for me, I commissioned a lot of music and I find it develops me a lot as a performer because by learning new music, I learn also a lot about when you ask another instrumentalist to write for you, I learn about their way of understanding written music.
For example, I got music written from a clarinetist or Kyrese as a flutist or a percussionist. It's like their way of notating the music and their way of understanding how it's written. It's very, very different from the different traditions of instruments. But Marcus is a composer and he was a guitar player. I think he played mostly El electric guitar. He has never ever played a euphonium. But when I got that music, it was just playing the first phrase. It was like I was like, he has captured the main thing about euphonium, how the euphonium really can sound or how I wanted it to sound. And it's like, I don't know if that was because he has listened a lot to me earlier, or he has listened a lot to euphonium. I don't know, I haven't asked him, I should ask him about that. But he had really liked, it was a spot on, this is the euphonium, this is the way it should be played and how the music should be.
It was a perfectly written, and it's like I enjoyed challenges in new repertoire and I want it, I want to expand the borders. I want to go into new land making new ground of course, but sometimes I get new pieces that I feel the composer hasn't written for me or hasn't written for my instrument has just written. You know what I mean? And when I commission, and in Norway we have the composer has pretty good arrangement, sir Norway, so I can apply for state funding for the composer. They get a lot of money and I have to apply or we'll probably don't get so much money to perform it or learn it. So it's very, very different. And we probably spend as much time as the composer. I will probably spend that many hours to learn it sometimes and they get a lot of money and I ending up just getting paid for a concert, but that's the way it is.
And then you feel sometimes I feel at least that they should learn about me and I should pay any interest about the way I sound, the way I like to play the euphonium. And I don't know if Marcus did that, but it was for me, it's like school example on how to write for euphonium, have to understand an instrument like the craftsmanship of composing, I guess. Yeah. And it's so, so beautiful and you can hear it because it fits the instrument and it's like, yeah, you can hear he had the euphonium in his head when he wrote it. And I think that's good composing and we need more quality music of that kind for the euphonium because we are getting a lot of repertoire for euphonium. We have so much repertoire. And I think euphonium is maybe one of the, compared to other brass instruments, I have a feeling that we commission a lot now and we are expanding the repertoire so much. I don't necessarily feel that everything is of great quality, but this one is for sure.
Leah Roseman:
Well, thanks for that. This live performance of Lockdown Lullaby is on Bente's YouTube channel. The video is linked in the complete show notes on my website and Bente also recorded this piece on her first album, which you'll find linked as well. (Music)
You are Composer as well as Arranger.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, no, I have written some piece, but you have to buy that album I think Alene. And there is my first piece called Arv, but it's like I say, I don't want to refer to myself necessarily as a composer because I'm not a trained composer. And the thing is, I have no intention to be that as well because on the euphonium I'm so trained, and especially from those years we talked about doing the fundamentals and I still do it. I'm very, very trained on euphonium and try to take away every bug in my playing the classical tradition, try to smooth everything out and sort of your faults or what you're not so good at. But what that does to your playing I think, is that it takes away the spontaneous expression or the natural maybe kind of a raw expression that I try to come back to now.
I want to play more. I don't want to be so well shaped because I don't consider myself to be like - as a euphonium player, you're not like a classical musician in the way a violinist star because we don't have the repertoire, we don't have the knowledge. You haven't played that amount of music from the classical music history because it doesn't exist. That repertoire doesn't exist for us. So then you have to steal it or borrow it or transcribe it to play it. And I've done that and I find that especially, and the thing is, historically it's common to play a lot of Baroque music on euphonium and sonatas and stuff. But that's, I would say more people will probably don't agree with me on this. But I will say that's a very easy style to get into. It doesn't really take so much deep musicality for me. It's like the romantic repertoire that really show for me if you're a classical musician or not to play some songs lieder or yeah, I done the Rococo variations even though that's in all the style, you still played very romantically. It's played very romantically.
So that school is very necessary to be a classical musician. But even if I listen a lot to orchestra musicians, it's like I don't know the repertoire the way you know it when you played it for as you 30 years. So I usually don't identify so much as a classical musician. And often when I talk to people, I feel like I have more the same way of seeing things like jazz musicians. I have more mindset like them. And when it comes to composing, again, sorry, I'm getting out of there going in different directions. But for the composing, I wanted that to be just me. I don't want the teacher to come and tell me how I'm going to compose. I just wanted to be spontaneous. I don't want to learn about everything I do wrong because that will just have to be my music because that's why I compose is because I want to, this is, I think this is nice. It doesn't have to be in a style. And I'm not definitely not writing contemporary music. I'm just writing music I felt that I wanted to do in the moment.
Leah Roseman:
I enjoyed your Novemberfrost for Tuba and euphonium Quartet. I heard that on YouTube.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and that was something I wrote probably took me 20 minutes because it was like this morning I woke up and it was November and we didn't have any snow yet, and it was so cold and it had been raining and then everything was freezing, so it was like this big frost and it was like ice around every leaves and every grass and everything. So it was very, very nice landscape and I felt I wanted to capture that feeling I had when I saw it outside in the forest. And that's what I tried. And for me, it's like I said, I started on the piano and I didn't start on classical piano, I played with chords. So that's what I still do. And example for that is I have my grandfather's piano here in my house and I can sit down on the piano and I can improvise and I can't on a pretty okay level, and I can't do that on euphonium.
Leah Roseman:
Really.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, that tells a lot about what I'm talking about. As a classical trained musician, it takes away the spontaneous way of playing the horn
Or I can sort of improvise on the euphonium, but I catch myself after three seconds thinking about what key I am in what scales I'm playing now, what I'm going to do next, that turns automatically on the piano I'm just doing, and that's the same with composing. So I don't want anybody to touch that because I want to leave it because I sort of missed that way. When I started at the academy on my Bachelor, it was like my teacher was like, you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that to me. So he took away all of that spontaneous things in my euphonium playing. And when I was done before my final concert after my Bachelor, four year bachelor, he said, now you need to bring it back now we need to just play with expression. And it was, so I spent four years taking it off. So I think that is what classical training can do to you if you're not have a very, very smart teacher that can really guide you wisely through this process and and I see that a lot. And I have a lot of friends also that are developing some kind, almost like getting scared of their instrument because they're so afraid of doing anything wrong.
And then we're back to this perfection again, this illusion about the perfect thing. And I also think all this comes down to audition prepping as well, because everybody that's like, I don't know if it's like this in Canada, but the majority of people starting music education here in Norway in the performance degree wants to get into any ensemble like a military band or an orchestra. And the fact is I think it's like six or 7% that actually get that kind of job. So it's like what is the rest going to do if only thing is the same rep, the same excerpts, and you're a bit scared of your instrument, it's going to be a rough life. So I think we need to, in my perspective, we need to change music and education and I can't talk for any other instruments than my own, honestly. But I can see the tendency in the brass community in general that this is a thing.
It's not good. And I think maybe, yeah, I know I can talk a bit about the US because I know that college systems, since I've been there a lot touring and teaching, and I found that that is better when it comes to this because there is more room for not being so conservative. I don't think the orchestra and the military bands are so dominating in the schools as they are here in Scandinavia or maybe in Europe in general. And I think the reason maybe is because in Europe we have very, very few full-time bras teachers. And in Norway I only think we have one horn professor that is full-time and that is everything we have in the entire country. All the rest is part-time. And that means the teachers at the schools are orchestra musicians just working small positions in schools. There's a good thing about that because your teacher is a very active performer and very into that. But on the same other hand, it's like your teacher is not present at the school and your teachers are very focused on that only way of performing. And for me, that was a really breakthrough in my career when I realized that I, because up until maybe I think it's about 10 years ago since I took the last audition in a military band in Norway, and then I was in the final round and I didn't get the job, but they told me I had the most musical audition.
And then I was like, okay, but you didn't want the person with the most musical audition. And then I was starting to think, okay, what is this business? And I also realized that I wasn't playing after my own standard. I was playing after somebody else's standard because I wanted somebody else to my playing because I wanted them to give me a job. I honestly think that that moment was also the first time that I started to realize that it's not necessary about being the best. It's so many things that also unfortunately affects how your career will be or what kind of chances you will get.
Sometimes it's not enough to be best because they know somebody or somebody else better as a person, and then it's not something you can control. So that's also when I decided that I want to have a career and have a life that I can be in charge of, I can control and how can I develop that? And yeah, here I am. And the course is, it is been a wild ride and I've been working so hard. I don't think people have a clue honestly, and how many hours of practice, how many hours of administrations and and contacts and everything. But also people will like you if you're nice and you answer emails. I think that's important to say. So yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Hi, just a quick break from the episode. I wanted to let you know about some other episodes I’ve linked directly to this one, with Katherine Needleman, trombonists Hillary Simms, Naomi Moon Siegel, and Douglas Burden and trumpet players Karen Donnelly, Stephen Burns and Chuck Copenace. It’s a joy to be able to bring these meaningful conversations to you, but this project costs me quite a bit of money and lots of time; please support this series through either my merchandise store or on my Ko-fi page; you’ll find the links in the show notes. For the merch, it features a unique design by artist Steffi Kelly and you can browse clothes, notebooks, mugs and more, everything printed on demand. On my Ko-fi page you can buy me one coffee, or every month. You’ll also find the link to sign up for my newsletter where you’ll get access to exclusive information about upcoming guests. Finally, if you’re finding this episode interesting, please text it to a friend? Thanks so much.
Leah Roseman:
On your first album, you have this composition with fixed media and it has these, is it an acronym, DSDHT? What is that?
Bente Illevold:
That's written by an Ian composer named in collaboration with a Swedish, computer engineer called Ludvig Elblaus, a compressed way of saying (Norwegian phrase) which is the name of the Norwegian folksong on the entire piece is based, it'll be, I pronounce it Dusht. So it's a very, very cool piece am I like to pick it up and play it once in a while still. I played it last fall in Italy and we'll bring it to the US in 2026. I think I'm doing a pretty big solo tour then. So yeah, (Music)
Leah Roseman:
So you're your own manager?
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, I do everything. I have a manager in the US that helps me set up things there. That helps a lot and especially also because even though I have this artist visa and stuff, it's still very, very hard for schools in the US to get an invoice for me or just do a wire transfer and stuff. So everything goes through a manager that's so much easier there. So yeah, in Europe it's very, very nice because European Union, even Norway is not a member of the European Union. We have almost the same agreement with them. So you can work and travel, it's allowed to work and travel in all the countries and very easy free bank transfers and everything. So it's super easy.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, it's very hard for Canadians because our country's so big, so expensive to travel within our country and it's of course before we had the present troubles even to go to the States, it's very expensive for the visas and all that to work there. So it's quite, and to go anywhere else, we're so isolated in this huge country to get to Europe or
Bente Illevold:
It was quite a process and a lot of money to get US visa. And also I really would like to come to Canada, but I also saw it's like it'll be the same process there to get there to work. It's a lot of money and a lot of effort.
Leah Roseman:
Now you're in a duo with an American tuba player, David Earll.
Bente Illevold:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
You did a recent tour with him and you had an opportunity to visit the Grand Canyon, which is one of these places I've always wanted to go. What was that like?
Bente Illevold:
Sometimes Americans or things in the US I feel is a bit hyped honestly, but to say the Grand Canyon was beyond my expectations, it was unbelievable. It's like it is a must see and I feel like to experience great nature and those kind of wow experiences that changed you as a human and early in music history as well, the arts and the experience in nature were really closely connected and it was saying they were the same kind of experience, like an aesthetic experience. And I can really say it was that to me. So that was really, really amazing. Absolutely. So now that Northern Lights due, we've been going for, I think we are like seven years now or eight years and yeah, still going strong. Dave is coming here in June and we are playing a few concerts and he will be with me on the sort of pilot edition, of my festival that I will try to start in my hometown, Rendalen Low Brass Seminar.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, that's a wonderful initiative. So where do you see this going in the future as you develop it more?
Bente Illevold:
Oh, I like to have what we call in Norwegian, hairy goals, meaning that really big goals. So I want to bring world class low brass players to my hometown every summer and hopefully will bring the entire world plus brass environment in Norway and after a while Scandinavia there and it'll be develop into a week long festival. For now it'll be two concerts and one day with the seminar for the participants, but have to start small. And my goal, my plan was initially to start next year, but then Dave had a possibility to come here and then I said, okay, let's do it. Let's just start it now. So we'll see how it goes. Yeah, so it's like a thing I'm planning to continue doing every year until I retire, so we'll see.
Leah Roseman:
But do you live in Oslo now or you live in Rendalen?
Bente Illevold:
No, I live in, It's a small town outside Oslo, so about 35 minutes drive from Oslo, downtown Oslo. So basically Oslo I would say. Yeah, so it's like I don't know about Canadians, what is a long drive for you, but as Norwegian, we don't like to drive so long, so it's around four hours to where I grew up and that's considered to be a long drive, very long drive in Norway,
Leah Roseman:
Not here. But I was just curious if you had, it would've made more sense to me to do the seminar in Oslo just for transportation.
Bente Illevold:
But this is my hometown, as I said, it's a very, very small place now. It lives like 1800 people there and I really have my heart there for this place. And this is sort of, I want to give something back, what can I do,
What can happen, what my help with? And the actual thing is as well. It's very, very beautiful in the summer and it's, it's not located with the coast, so we don't have the fjords, but we sure have mountains and pretty easy access and it's possible to get some pretty spectacular hiking without walking for eight hours. So my plan after a while is to include some hiking, maybe include some bike and a both experience on lakes and traditional food to include that. So it's more like a culture thing as well. And so it'll be a package that can also help the general tourism and other small businesses in Rendalen. That is what I hope. So yeah, we have to see and we have to get some support and it'll develop. Yeah, but I think I'm optimistic. I think this will be realistic. I have a great network.
People has already asked can I come? So some pretty big names. So I think it'll be very easy to get some big names there. It'll be in the beginning probably harder to get participants, but we'll see. This will probably not be so big this summer. But yeah, you have to build it stone by stone as you have to do with your playing. I think it's, and that is often forgotten is if you want to build something really good, not just playing with if is an ensemble or on festival or a network or whatever, it's like you have to be committed and this consistency is the key and don't give up. It's like I often get asked by people, what is the trick? Have you come to the place where you are? And the only answer I can say is I have not given up. I just worked hard over time and tried to be nice and honest. That's all. I just didn't give up. I have this very cool, this one,
Leah Roseman:
A winner is just a loser who tried one more time. Who says that? I don't see the author
Bente Illevold:
George M. Moore Jr. I don't know who that is, maybe
Leah Roseman:
I don't, but I'm sure some listeners will.
Bente Illevold:
But it's a very, very good one.
Leah Roseman:
I mean when you look back at 10 years ago when you didn't win that job, you wanted how your life would've been relatively boring compared to where it is now.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, I'm very happy I didn't get got that job.
Leah Roseman:
Do you want to talk to David? Is there a duo clip we could include and point people towards?
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, I have some things on my YouTube channel, a few things there. So we can just pick if you want something. I think I have an arrangement I made actually called the Norwegian Folk Tunes or something that is pretty good.
Leah Roseman:
This clip of a live performance of Norwegian folk tunes arranged by Bente is performed by the Northern Lights duo with David Earll. The video is linked in the full show notes on my website. (Music)
Leah Roseman:
So in terms of inclusion in a low brass world, I know you had a recent decision that you were very public about not to attend the recent international Tuba and Euphonium conference in Spain.
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, and this is part of what I said earlier about I spend a lot of time on figure out why I didn't fit in and after a while I figured out this was because I was not included and that is not included. People are saying you're not allowed to be here included. But just the feeling that if you go out with someone and have a drink or something and then everybody's saying you goodbye and you get a feeling, the rest of the group are just going to the next pub and you are, they're just want to send you home. That kind of exclusion. And also, I recently read or started to read a bit about gender theory and then I realized that that feeling of not belonging is also about how we are taught and race. And it's like as a low bras player, euphonium player, I only heard about men that played euphonium men that are great. And that was until I by myself discovered Gail Robertson and Laura Lineberger in the US and they also, the first time I met them at that IWBC in 2017, they were so warm and inclusive and automatically welcome me. And I felt like wow. And I think honestly that was the first time I met some euphonium players that I felt I could trust.
But about the conference, it's like over the last year and you mentioned Katherine Needleman and she's tried to bring awareness to some decisions being made by the ITEA International Tuba Euphonium Association and questioned some actions from the leadership in that organization. And I totally support Katherine on that and I reacted very strongly to on how the leadership responded to her because there were no willingness to go into a discussion. They were just saying, I will not discuss this. And for me, that is breaking one of the fundamental things about living in a democracy or being a democratic organization. And that is that every voice shall be heard and the goal is not to agree on everything. There is no one way, but it's room for different opinions. For me, that is the democracy basically sum it up and that's what we live in and that's what that kind of organization is.
And I also was at a festival in Brazil in November. First time for me in Brazil was a very emotional and a really eye-opener experience for me to go there and also see all the joy and the great community they are building there on low brass. Some extremely dedicated people are doing terrific work there. And then I also met up with some people from the leadership of the idea and were having a big discussion with them. And then I realized that from my point of view, I didn't see any will to sort from them to change or to admit that they maybe did a mistake. And I said to them that I will not come and contribute to anything before we get an apology. Because earlier they were saying that, for example, there came a public statement from the ITEA saying that everything is really good when it comes to gender equality here in Norway that we don't have any problem on the low brass scene.
And being a low brass player female in Norway, having several low brass player friends, female in Norway, that has also stopped playing because of how things are, I found that very strange and that either you are closing your eyes and don't want to admit it or otherwise you don't really care. You're not really aware. So I don't know what's really the case. But anyway, I felt when I got that question to go and play in Valencia where everybody will be, I assume the entire tuba and euphonium community except me, we'll probably be there when I saw the email and I went to bed that night and then I woke up at two and I was like immediately sure that my body just told me, you can't go, if you go there, you will not be able to look yourself in the mirror. It's more important for me to be true to my values than to go and play a big gig because, and then I got some critique about it.
Yeah, why don't you just go and play awesome and then they will understand. But honestly, that's what all the generations before me have done and and history I showed it doesn't work. It's not enough to just show up and play. Well, that doesn't change it. The men's club or the boys clubs are still there or whatever it is. It's not necessarily a gender thing. It's about power abuse and not leaving room to people that don't agree with you when it comes to performance practice or pedagogy. And that is a shame because that means that we are lacking that diversity. And what arts needs is diversity if you want to make progress and especially for tuba euphonium, is like we are like this tiny, tiny, tiny community and people are obsessed about themselves and what they are doing and it's very, very strange because in reality it's like we should all focus on getting our instrument out there to a bigger crowd.
And yeah, every time I raised voice and told that to the, it's like they're only interested in just hosting their conferences and doing the same thing instead of like, okay, maybe we should actually invite ourselves to go to a violin conference or something to just, maybe we can commission music to, that will open some other possibilities for us, think very differently. I haven't heard or seen any kind of initiative like that. And I think it's like until, and I think the reason is because some people benefit from state to school. Some people benefits a lot. Oh, that things remains the same. And that is the people with power that I come to power now and they don't want to change because that will take something from them. They just wanted to remain the same way. And I think this is also maybe a bit of a struggle we are facing in the low bra world also for women is that the few women that has succeed has not always been very inclusive to new generations.
And that is a problem. As I said, Laura and Gail has been super inclusive to me, so I'm very lucky and I'm trying to be that to younger player as well because I feel it's my responsibility. It's like Laura and Gail made it bit easier for me and I hopefully will make it a bit easier for the next generation. But still it's like a lot of, not a lot, but some people that have very high position in the brass community, females are still don't want to let go of their position. They seems like they want to be the only one. So that's also a big problem. And I think maybe this is what power does to you. And that is also what I really like about, I sometimes joke, especially when I go to the US and teach and play because I don't have a doctorate because it's not very common to have that in Europe and I don't really have a job. So I usually tell 'em that I'm undereducated and I don't have a job.
And that makes you also very free position and you feel I can speak up without risking anything. I think that's a big problem because people will not speak up. I have so many private conversations with people that are really upset about the situation, but they're not speaking up because it'll make their work situation much harder. And that's really a shame. But at least I felt I am in a position where I can speak up and I don't think it alone will change anything, but at least it was good for me to say it. And it seemed that a lot of people noticed it got a lot of attention on social media. So yeah, we'll see. Maybe they'll reach out to me at some point and maybe they will do a public excuse that they put their words in a very unnecessary way, I will say. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Do you want to talk a little bit more about Katherine's commission from Kyrese for you to perform the new piece?
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, yeah, because that was also a piece that came together after I would say some very heavy interaction between Katherine Needleman and a great euphonium star and a big disagreement. And they were planning to have a online conversation that people could pay to watch and listen to and the money from that was fundraising for a new piece for euphonium and piano. And I was asked by Katherine if I wanted to do the premiere, and of course I wanted that on the same time, knowing that that will make me an enemy to some very big names on my instrument. But still I felt it was very easy for me to say yes because again, I felt it was morally right thing to do. And also I'm very interested in doing new music and we got a really nice piece from Kyrese. They did a good, great job. So yeah, I'm looking forward to perform it again and hopefully record it. And I think it's written in a style that I think it's a bit new for the euphonium repertoire, so it's sometimes very hard to get the right music and make it sound new to have some innovation in it. But I think Kyrese has managed that and it'll, I'm looking forward also to follow Kyrese's career in the future, both as a lut and a composer and excited for what they will do.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. We talked a little bit about teaching before and you mentioned about practicing and fundamentals and certainly in your online masterclass as you go over specifics about embouchure. So people have probably seen that who are interested. But I was curious about the angle of encouraging creativity and expression from day one with students. So you do quite a bit of online teaching as well as in person. So what kind of things do you do to foster that with your students?
Bente Illevold:
Oh, that's a big question. When I was in my master's, I had to spend a lot of time or I spent a lot of time recording myself and I did it in the way, I've always been a morning person. So I got into school very early and then there were always some good rooms available so we can reserve it. And then I stayed maybe for five and six hours in a room and where I practiced and I recorded and I immediately listened back. And the reason I did it was because I realized that I have had to make my brain and ears are realistic, being able to really hear what I'm doing because your brain thinks you're doing so much more than what you really are doing. So I needed that to be more on track. And as I tell my student now, it's still not on track and that's why I record myself still.
And that's why I have my Instagram profile recording is not because I want to upload stuff because I actually use it in my practice. It's like those videos are more for me than for my Instagram followers really. It's like you understand what I'm saying? I'm not creating content. I'm using the things I am actually doing for myself to really have people understand that because I think this is the big hurdle for a lot of people. And I think to train yourself to what do you really hear when you hear and what do you really hear when you listen to your own practice and to raise that awareness. And it's like often I do this small test with students is like I ask them to close their eyes for 10, 15 seconds and then I say, okay, we are going to listen to all the sounds around us now and you're going to tell me count how many different sounds you can hear.
And usually I find myself hearing two or three more sounds than all the students every time. And I think that's like, what do you really hear? I think that's kind of a quality I try to implement in my playing is really, are you really playing in the center of the notes? How is your legato, can it be better? It's like how are you really shaping how are we coloring this now? How expressive is this playing really? I constantly try to push myself on that every day in my practice and really have that kind of awareness, that kind of, I often say that my practice room is my research lab. That's what it really is. And I try to, for the students, it's like I don't think this is really something you can learn or learn people in the way to tell them, but you can as a teacher, you can just encourage them to do it and try to make them understand why they should do this and commit to this way of practice.
And that's why I feel like I'm feeling real bad when I say it, but I almost never listen to euphonium music anymore. And it's like I can listen to maybe five bars and I'm not saying that I am better. Maybe people will say the same about my playing. I listen five bars and then it was so boring I didn't want to listen anymore. But because I feel it's like I hear a lot, and this is not only euphonium, but in general I hear a lot of music being played, especially classical music that I don't believe. You have to play in a way to make people believe you. And the first step of making other people believe in your playing is you have to believe it yourself and then you have to do this kind of mental process, or not mental, but intellectual process, understanding the piece.
And I feel, again, a lot of students these days are so in a hurry, they just want to play it and they don't really care how it sounds. It's just like click it off, put it on my resume that I played this piece where on an orchestra, I've done this recital. It's more important to do stuff than do stuff with quality. And of course I feel that same way with myself and my performances because, but I'm an adult, I need to make money and sometimes I have to do gigs to make money. And I wish, I'm thinking so many times, at least once a week I'm thinking like, oh, when I was a student and you had one recital every six months and you could spend six months on a repertoire. And now I'm like, this last month I was playing two big solo recitals with one hour program and it was only one piece that was the same. And it was like with eight days between those recitals. And that's the reality.
And then sometimes you don't get everything up to the level you really want, but to have that kind of commitment to always go for the quality and push yourself, and again, I said I stopped playing after all the people's standards and I find my own and I often think I will never come to the place where I'm happy with my playing. I will probably die before I reach that level because it's like, it's a lifelong process and it's like it's so much to learn on this instrument just standing behind my back. And it's like I am so far away from reaching this instrument's potential. I'm not even close. It's so much left. And yeah, I am not sure I'm going to make it to a level that I'm really satisfied with.
And I feel it's like that's kind of the development and it's a constant thing. It's like I don't practice to keep the level I practice to become better and hopefully I will maybe be able to have progress if I'm lucky, maybe eight to 10 years more of progress before I have to settle on just keeping the level. And I think that's the drive and that's the drive of being an artist. I think it's like, it's not historically, you can say artist has had had very unhappy life, but I think the goal is to, when you're done with your practice for the day, you leave it and then you go on and have a life and just separate those two things that tell that the student a lot. You need to be very hard on yourself in the practice room. And that's rough. And I was so hard on myself in the practice room when I was a student and I still am and I still have the same process two weeks before or two weeks before a big concert. I feel super confident one week before a big concert, I've done things myself. I feel I haven't done the job going through all those processes. Is my sound really okay? Is this good enough? Will people like it? It's the same thing. It'll never go away. But that's the part, being able to perform well, you need to have that kind of, if you're just saying to yourself, I'm super happy, I'm good, then I don't think you'll reach your full potential. You need to feel, it's like no pain, no gain, that simple.
Leah Roseman:
I'm curious for your self-reflection, do you use journaling? Do you write down ideas or for planning or dreaming about things?
Bente Illevold:
Yeah, I have this and I don't think I could live without that book now. It's not very detailed, but I write down stuff to get it out of my head so I'm not stressed because I have to remember stuff because I realize that. So it can be anything. It can be very administrative, boring stuff, but it can also be artistic ideas. And what I do very often is I just use my phone and whenever I come up with something on your phone or the phony mode, the piano or just with my voice, I immediately record it. So I have a lot of small 20, 30 seconds of me singing or playing something that I might want to use in a piece in the future. So I take time to get those ideas out immediately. I recently, or last year, I wrote a euphonium concerto that I premiered in my hometown orchestra in Christmas last Christmas.
And that piece was made entirely out of me having one and a half years with small themes on my phone. And it took me 14 days to make that into 26 minutes. Euphonium concerto, just put it in, writing it out. But then everything has gone just been in my head. And I found that that's the way to really also be creative for me is I want to have things. I want to know it very far so I can plan it very far ahead, but I'm not working on it, but it's just there. And then I realized more and more that suddenly it'll click, it'll come to you, and the more time you have the longer perspective, the more the higher chance that you will come up with something that is quite good, just like leave it there. But I also think I'm very lucky school and everything has always been very easy for me, like writing or speaking, not English, but Norwegian and I am quite quick to understand and learn stuff theoretically.
And I think I have a very good short term memory, so I survive a lot on that and I try to stay pretty healthy. So when I'm working a lot, for example, I don't drink alcohol, I only try to do that only when I have time off. So in long periods I don't drink at all and I very prioritize sleeping a lot and resting and I try to exercise, I run, I'm not fast or anything, I like food, so I'm a bit overweight. So I don't run very fast, but I run almost every day because it's good for mental capacity, but also I think it's crucial for me, personal, my size playing the instrument I do. It's very physical, demanding. So I need to be in a decent shape and especially now I'm 41-year-old and I need to also do some strength training and I need to do that, able to play this instruments without getting any injuries.
Leah Roseman:
Well, thanks so much for this today. Really appreciated this chance to sit down and talk to you.
Bente Illevold:
Thank you for having me.
Leah Roseman:
I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please share this with your friends and check out episodes you may have missed at Leahroseman.com. If you could buy me a coffee to support this series, that would be wonderful. I'm an independent podcaster and I really do need the help of my listeners. All the links are in the show notes. The podcast theme music was written by Nick Kold. Have a wonderful week.
